Follow us!

    Re: Mold Prevention coatings applied during new construction

    Posted by NC on 11/16/04

    Very informative. Glad to see the desire to get the facts and want the industry to
    be accountable. I wish you all the best. I plan to send this to a friend that will
    be building a home in PA. Thank you for the time you spent writing the details.

    11/16/04, Facts only please wrote:
    > Why is it everybody on this website states "I have used all the products" how
    > could someone, this mold prevention thing is really less than 3 years old. It
    > is just starting to kick into high gear. Yes some companies have been around
    > for a long time, but does that make them and their products the best. Old
    > technology for old solutions. Several of the products actually use multi methods
    > for dealing with mold. (i.e. Forticel from PCG actually uses 3 types of
    > antimicrobials not just one) I talked with Lenny from PCG and he would not tell
    > me the ingrediants but I think we all have a good idea what 3 compounds are
    > used.
    > I also contacted the EPA and they are more concerned with how each product is
    > marketed not how effective each product is. So talking to them will get the
    > average builder no where other than to say that everything they claim meets
    > code. Which anyone who does gov't work knows is worth nothing.
    > Warranties are as good as the company, this has been true since the age of
    > time. The same can be said for 3rd party insurance claims.
    > I have a background in microbiology and one thing I do know that has been
    > incorrectly stated that silver ions wash off. The silver ions will hold up the
    > best to the "washing off" tests that I have seen.
    > As a good builder, one has to look at all the options, warranty, ease of
    > applicaiton, downtime to crews, customer service, etc. I have seen pros and
    > cons to all the products and I don't think any one product is far superior to
    > any of the others. They all seem to work to some degree, which is better than
    > no application at all.
    > Price is big in my market and since we live in the far NE winter applications
    > are crucial. This is something that the Florida's and Cal don't have to worry
    > about, but several Aegis applicators up here say they can not fog below
    > freezing. Which makes sense, so spray on applications during the winter are much
    > more appealing.
    > I would like to stop seeing all you "experts" which I'm sure are company
    > salesmen or company presidents just trying to market your products by chopping
    > down other companies, just stop and start help us builders learn the ins and
    > outs of applications and mold issues.
    > On 11/12/04, Concerned wrote:
    >> I would have to agree with John L. This chat room should be promoting the
    >> industry as a whole. I also agree with Robert, that the facts, not opinions
    >> should be addressed. There can only be one set of facts. I have done
    >> extensive research on the following: Aegis, BioShield, Nova, CIA, Microbe
    >> Guard, Microshield, American Mold Guard, Envirocare, PCG, Anabec, Fosters,
    >> Anti-growth, Mold Block, Microban and Fiberlock. I have contacted and spoke
    >> to people at the EPA and the three different States.
    >> THis industry is in a fast growing pace and growing faster everyday. THe more
    >> attention this industry gets, the more people want to get involved. Everyone
    >> makes claims, some true, most false. If we as and industry do not work
    >> together to better the industry as a whole, then we are all doomed to be be
    >> associated with fly by night con men. I operate a small mold prevention
    >> business and have been a restoration contractor since 1985. I have used all
    >> of the above manufacturers products. YES, all of them! I have worked with
    >> half a dozen other mold prevention contractor around the country going over
    >> the same issues that we are all discussing here.
    >> I have spent my money to test and have tested all the above products. I have
    >> spoke to several EPA officials, several building associations and several
    >> States. Here is what I know as fact!
    >> 1. MOld is the biggest issue facing builders and homeowners across the country.
    >> 2. Mold is every where and on everything.
    >> 3. Builders need to prevent the growth of mold on the homes that they build.
    >> So what is the best product, or products to accomplish this? Is EPA
    >> registration required? Is EPA Registration important? How important is a
    >> warranty? What is the difference between manufacturer warranty and third
    >> party warranty? Here are the facts!
    >> 1. What mold prevention product(s) do you use?
    >> Is it a private label name or is the real product name. Several people use
    >> private labels of their product, however the products are the same. American
    >> Mold Guard, Microbe Guard, Anabec and Nova use BioShield. CIA and Microbe
    >> Guard use Aegis. Microshield and Fiberlock use Microban.
    >> 2. Who manufacture’s the mold prevention product(s)?
    >> To ensure the product is manufactured by recognized, reputable manufacturer.
    >> How financially stable is the manufacturer, how long have they been in
    >> business, who is backing the product should it fail? Aegis's product has been
    >> around for 27 years, Bioshield's product for 12 years, Nova for 2 years,
    >> Fosters' products for 10 years, Envirocare for 3 years, PCG less than 1 year,
    >> Microban 5 years. A product that has not been out for long can not make any
    >> real claims on performance, can they? How can they have any real case
    >> studies? Real world and lab are WAAAYYYY different.
    >> 3. Is the product(s) EPA Registered? Should it be? I have copied the
    >> following from the EPA offical web site:
    >> "EPA registers and regulates antimicrobial pesticides under the Federal
    >> Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA). To obtain registration,
    >> manufacturers of antimicrobial products must meet the basic standards, the
    >> foremost being: 1) that the product will not cause unreasonable adverse
    >> effects to human health or the environment, and 2) that product labeling and
    >> composition comply with the requirements of FIFRA. Moreover, manufacturers are
    >> required to submit to EPA detailed and specific information concerning the
    >> chemical composition of their product; effectiveness data to document their
    >> claims against specific microorganisms and to support the directions for use
    >> provided in labeling; labeling that reflects the required elements for safe
    >> and effective use; and toxicology data to document any hazards associated with
    >> use of the product."
    >> The Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) requires the
    >> registration of any substance or mixtures of substances intended to prevent,
    >> destroy, repel, or mitigate pests. However, the Code of Federal Regulations
    >> prescribes the conditions under which an exemption from registration is
    >> allowed for treated articles or substances. It allows an exemption for:
    >> An article or a substance treated with or containing a pesticide to protect
    >> the article or substance itself (for example, paint treated with a pesticide
    >> to protect the paint coating) HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART THAT PCG,
    >> •Claims for treated articles or substances are limited to the following
    >> statement, "This product contains a preservative (e.g., fungicide or
    >> insecticide) built-in or applied as a coating only to protect the product. An
    >> example of an acceptable label statement would be:
    >> Antimicrobial properties are built-in to inhibit the growth of bacteria that
    >> may affect this product. The antimicrobial properties do not protect users or
    >> others against bacteria, viruses, germs, or other disease organisms.
    >> I have some first hand knowledge of this. I was sent a Cease & Desist order
    >> from the EPA concerning the sell, application and marketing of PCG's three
    >> products: Forticell, Agility and Mycodene. PCG was marketing their products
    >> with claims that their product prevent the growth of mold on many surfaces.
    >> THat is an illegal claim. PCG, Envirocare, Microban, Forticel and Mold Block
    >> have EPA registered additives in their coating (paint) the coating can only
    >> prevent the growth of mold on the surface of the paint coating. It will not
    >> protect the wood or kill mold on the wood. I have copies of the Cease and
    >> desist order should anyone like to see it.
    >> 4.Provide MSDS and Technical Bulletin for each product.
    >> The MSDS shows you the safety of the product and lists any dangerous
    >> ingredients or dangerous health effects of the product. PCG do not even list
    >> their ingredients. What are they hiding? BioShield, Nova, Fosters, Fiberlock
    >> have several product for specific industries, make sure you get the right
    >> one.The technical bulletin explains exactly how the product can be used as per
    >> manufactures specifications.
    >> 5.Does the company carry insurance that covers Mold or do they have E & O
    >> insurance that covers mold? Almost every company told us that they have
    >> insurance that covers mold. We checked. Most of them LIE! Ask for a copy of
    >> their policy and call the insuarne company yourself.
    >> 6.What warranty comes with your product and service? Manufacturer or third
    >> party warranty?
    >> Read and understand all warranties to verify what is being covered and how
    >> much is being covered. I have seen much debate over this as of late. Do any
    >> of you remember when H.O.W. filed for bankruptcy in the late 80's. THey left
    >> hundreds of thousand of people with out warranties. EVERY STATE passed laws
    >> after that to protect the consumer. Warranty Companies are now required to
    >> keep 65&37; of their funds in an untouchable account and they can only
    > warranty a
    >> certain amount of business based on their finacial reserves. Manufacturers
    >> can warranty anything that they want. What does this mean to all of us? ALL
    >> warranties are only as good as the financial stability of the manufacturer.
    >> THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO BE SURE OF!!!!!!!!!!!!! Several of the
    >> above manufacturers just started out. I checked! PCG started in April of
    >> 2004. My company is substantially bigger than them. Envirocare has been
    >> kicked out of most markets by their own applicators. Microban has been kicked
    >> out of many other countries, so they spun off a new Microban company. Fosters,
    >> Aegis, Nova and Fiberlock are the only companies with any size. Nova is in
    >> legal trouble with the owner of their technology, BioShield. Again, check the
    >> facts, don't call the manufacturer. Anyone can tell you that they are
    >> financially secure, if so, where are your financial statments? THird party
    >> warranty is governed by insurance and state laws. Manufacturer warranties are
    >> only as good as the manufacturer. Maybe the Manufacturer is much bigger than
    >> the warranty company? Maybe the manufacturer is in big financial trouble?
    >> 7. What is the chemistry behind the product or how does the product actually
    >> prevent the growth of mold? Anyone can tell you that their product kills and
    >> prevents the growth of mold, but how does it do it? The same way that we
    >> can. Aegis, Anabec,American Mold Guard and Microbe Guard use a technology
    >> based off a DOW Corning invention back in the 70's. Their products kill by
    >> creating positively charge swords on the surface that is treated. THis stabbs
    >> and electrocutes the mold. This coating is not digested by the mold and is a
    >> permanent treatment. Envirocare and PCG use silver ions that are slowly
    >> released when moisture is present to interupt the dna/growth/ cell activities
    >> of the mold. THe mold most com into contact with the silver to be affected.
    >> Good in theory, if you could plate the whole house. THis product will be
    >> washed off water and overtime will be ineffective. Fosters, Fiberlock and
    >> Microban use poisons. THe mold must digest the poison for the product to be
    >> effective. This causes the product to loose effectiveness overtime as the
    >> mold eats away the coating. It also cause the mold to become resistant to the
    >> poison over time. Think about it, how does the mold prevention treatment
    >> effect the mold? Stop believing what you hear and start believing in what you
    >> see and prove for yourself.
    >> 8.Are the applicators certified or trained to apply the product?
    >> Microban, forticel, fosters, Nova, PCG and Envirocare certification is the
    >> purchase of the product. In other words, there is NONE. If you buy it, you
    >> can apply it. Agian I know because I have. Aegis makes you go through the
    >> CIA or Microbe Guard. Microbe Guard and Anabec require training only if you
    >> want a warranty.
    >> 9.How long has their products been on the market? List references.
    >> Products come and go. Lead paint and asbestos were thought to be safe and
    >> turned out to be harmful. Just because they say it works in a lab, does not
    >> mean that it works in real world applications. Show independent verification,
    >> not in house verification. PCG just opened up, Envirocare's product came out
    >> in 2002, Aegis's product came out in 1976, Foster's products came out over the
    >> last ten years with products like 42-42 less than 2 years. Microban has
    >> changed corporate structure so often I can't tell.
    >> 10.How long have the companies you been in business?
    >> Have the company been in business long enough to show their ability to survive
    >> in a hostile market. Will they be around long enough to stand behind their
    >> product? THis again falls back to who is backing the warranty? If the
    >> manufacturer has been around for a long time, chances are they will remain.
    >> If the manufacturer is new or has a short lived history, then I would want to
    >> see some financial statsments.
    >> 11.What professional organizations do you belong to?
    >> Many organizations require training, proof of financial responsibility,
    >> continued education and mandate ethical business practices. Request
    >> verification of membership with professional organizations.
    >> Call you local EPA OFFICE and ask them the questions. THey will point you to
    >> the truth.
    >> On 11/05/04, John L. wrote:
    >>> On 11/03/04, Robert wrote:
    >>>> On 11/03/04, Gilligan wrote:
    >>>>> On 11/02/04, Robert wrote:
    >>>>>> EPA registration is important only if you are actually applying a
    >>>>>> pesticide. The EPA regulates pesticides. Most of the mold
    >>>>>> prevention products do not contain pesticides. All the mold Killers
    >>>>>> contain pesticides.
    >>>>>> Paint products have all kinds of additives added to them and they do
    >>>>>> not require EPA approval. The new mold prevention products are under
    >>>>>> the same requirements. Those of you, who do not understand the
    >>>>>> guidelines of the Gov't and what they are for are mislead
    >>>>>> individuals.
    >>>>>> I have been a builder for years and understand water intrusions and
    >>>>>> mold. To prevent is better than to react.
    >>>>>> Several of the products on the market are designed to kill existing
    >>>>>> mold on the product surface. This is good, but they do not last
    >>>>>> (check the warranty claims) they also can be washed off by a water
    >>>>>> intrusion over time. (once again not good because mold needs moisture
    >>>>>> to grow).
    >>>>>> Once you actually check out the facts you all will see that you should
    >>>>>> prevent mold growth over the long term, see your states home owners
    >>>>>> warranty (most are 10 years and then some).
    >>>>>> Be very careful of fast talking salesmen that try to scare you away
    >>>>>> from products or into using product. These guys are no good. Check
    >>>>>> the facts warranties are very important, and it doesn't really matter
    >>>>>> what state the parent company resides in. If the manufacturer doesn't
    >>>>>> warrant the product then don't trust them. Chevy and Ford stand
    >>>>>> behind their products so do several companies out there.

    Posts on this thread, including this one

  Site Map:  Home Chatboards Legal Jobs Classified Ads Search Contacts Advertise
  © 1996 - 2013. All Rights Reserved. Please review our Terms of Use, Mission Statement, and Privacy Policy.