Re: Mold Prevention coatings applied during new construction

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I agree with the statement that you all have to select your own
products based on what is important to you... On behalf of a client,
certified industrial hygienist and member: http://www.aiha.org/ I have
been through the evaluation process of all of the mentioned products on
this board as well as other new pressure treatments for forestry
products. I hope to benefit the readers that would like an objective
view using industry standard protocol.

We considered the data presented by the companies and only the data
qualified by independent study. We used standard testing in our study
as well. registration vs. non registration or salesmen credibility
although important, was initially less of a factor because the
substrate testing using ASTM and AWPA guidelines proved that certain
polymer coatings, glycol solutions, coppers and borate salts were
adequately effective for the intended use with exception of certain
retail kitchen and bath paints commonly found in the retail outlets.
The manufacturers with proven chemical engineering history and
qualified products for their respective applications were given more
serious consideration versus others with limited service history in the
field. The part of our study I am disclosing is in response to the
mold fact guy post related to: A new compound or combination of
compunds introduced to the building industry that he is currently using.

The firm offering 3 antimicrobials in 1 product as mentioned was
disqualified from our supplier list immediately and here is why: When
the manufacturer engages in pesticide producing practices to preserve
the materials as they advertise: "Protecting the
structure", "Protecting the users" and "Environmentally friendly" etc.,
all of these features are indicative of future structural and
environmental concerns that require regulatory qualification by agency
recognized groups, typically a leading university. This is often a 2
year or longer process was not conducted with this product. We verified
the cease and desist orders which bring rise to serious concern because
the agency issuing the order has structural safety and public safety in
mind while doing so. When this was brought to the forefront in our
evaluation, we were very careful to acess the risk involved with the
use of an unknown "mixture" of compounds. Per FIFRA, any new formula or
combination of actives not previously registered as 100% of its
original formula requires new toxicity and field studies to be
conducted for new pesticide registration to make the claims above.
Compounds such as the 3 in 1 mixtures of nondisclosed ingredients can
be harmful to the materials, occupants and the environment. We cannot
take the manufacturer's word for it and this is why there are laws in
place to protect those affected by the chemicals. Not individually but
when the antimicrobials are combined, the results of interaction
produce a different behavior, often corrosive, and more toxic than when
individually used. Our conclusion regarding this product was: Without
the proper license for these intended uses and in absence of a
registered label and qualifiers, use of the product was a substantially
higher risk than the problem it was intended to prevent. There are
many product choices available that are properly qualified. This isn't
one of them.

Gregory M.,CIH,PE

On 12/01/04, mold fact guy wrote:
> Why is it that the EPA is required for everything on this website.
> I think this is still turning into a salemens website, instead of an
> engineering knowledge website.
>
> Just because its EPA registered doesn't mean it works or is safe.
> Its EPA registered because the chemicals are "destructive" to
> something that's why its Registered ddddaaaa.
>
> I checked out the microguard website and I can't even tell what
> product these fruitcakes are applying. is it Aegis, Nova or what??
> they seem like they claim everything and yet back it with nothing.
> It looks almost like they are manufacturing their own, products,
> which as we know would then require EPA registration.
>
> I seem to sense a salemens got either turned down, or rejected as a
> distributor from some of the stated companies. Robert from
> MicrobeGuard, you must be salemen or the owner, because its pretty
> clear you are trying to deface EnviroCare,Fosters and PCG's
> products. This does not help our industry by us viewing your
> personal battles.
>
> Doesn't anyone produce field or lab tests anymore. I saw several
> lab results from some of these companies and they speak for
> themselves. I agree with a previous post. there appear to be two
> distinct fields of mold protection out there. Mold Killers
> (existing problems-Aegis, NovaBioshield,etc) and long term Mold
> Protection (Fosters, EnviroCare,PCG)and from what I understand the
> Mold Killers require EPA registration because they kill. the others
> do not require EPA registration because they do not 'harm the
> enviroment' per EPA.
>
> Please keep these posts scientific and not a personal battle ok
> Robert. Otherwise, it just forces us to go else for the actual
> facts.
>
> I currently am having the local applicators apply PCG's FortiCel
> product, because I feel that it is Scientifically Superior(the
> Newest technology), they use 3 antimicrobials not 1. They have a 25-
> year no nonsense warranty, and their price is the best for the
> service I receive. I used to use Fosters 40-20, but that product
> is an encapsulant that does not allow the wood to breath. I have
> tested 2 other applicators in our area, but was displeased with the
> service and product, One of the products is colorless, it made it
> hard for my sales staff to sell, I like the colored stuff because it
> shows we are doing something to the wall cavities.
>
> My subs can also work while the application is being applied. This
> was great, because it does not force me to lose a day to the Mold
> Prevention application. I know one of the companies requires a full
> day to not have any workers in the dwelling. This was just not
> acceptable to lose another day in the schedule, especially on the
> front end.
>
> I may change vendors down the road, but currently I like using a
> safe, friendly product that my home owners can see and feel like
> they are getting something for their dollar.
>
> You all have to select your own products, based on what is important
> to you. I never let a salesmen sell me, I have talked with other
> builders and the manufacturers because it's important to me.
>
> No offense, but guys like Robert from MicrobeGuard who have a flashy
> website, that actually says nothing, might work for builders in his
> area, but the rest of us like to see data and facts and we have seen
> dozens of 'carsalesmen' in our days.
>
> My clients are important to me, I get many referralls from them, so
> take your time and review the test results and real world examples,
> because this MOLD stuff can really hurt if it gets started and then
> into a court battle.
>
> Someone posted, something about an ounce of prevention, it sure is
> worth it to me.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/23/04, Tom B. wrote:
>> American Mold Guard's product is registered with the EPA. The
>> company is using the same active ingredient with an added surface
>> durability feature. The company only purchases product from
>> manufactures that hold EPA registrations for the actual
>> claim/surface being treated.
>>
>> On 10/20/04, Robert D wrote:
>>> I know of American Mold Guard and the Forticel product. I have
>>> been in the remediation business for 15 years and have used
>> every product on the market. Last week, the manufacturer of the
>>> Forticel product and one of their distributors was issued a
>> Cease
>>> and Desist order by the EPA for making illegal claims. Their
>>> products are not EPA Registered and can not kill or prevent the
>>> growth of mold on any surface accept for their paint film
>>> coating. You have to be careful and not believe everything that
>>> you read. American Mold Guard used to have a good product but
>>> they have changed manufacturer and are making their own product
>>> that is not EPA Registered.
>>>
>>> Do not buy or use any product that is not EPA Registered and be
>>> sure to require the EPA Reg. No. A lot of these people make
>>> claims that they can not prove. Require documentation or call
>>> the EPA to verify claims.
>>>
>>> For your own benefit, check out www.microbeguardinc.com.
>>>
>>> On 8/26/04, Bill wrote:
>>>> On 8/03/04, v wrote:
>>>>> On 8/02/04, Ljc wrote:
>>>>>> I recently ran across a company called American Mold Guard.
>>>> (Irvine, CA). They provide a ten year warranty against mold
>>>> growth on the application of their anti-mold surface coating
>>>> product which is applied during new construction on interior
>>>> framing and walls. Has anyone heard of this company or
>>>> product? Does it make any sense...?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It only makes sense if they have a lifetime warrenty. and
>>>> are still around ten yrs. from now. good idea though, if you
>>>> can pull it off. be leary, be weary.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am a builder, and have tested several products. The one I
>>>> got the best test results with is called Forticel. The
>>>> company who makes it is called Protective Coatings Group.
>>>> Their web address is www.4pcg.com