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    Re: Mold Prevention coatings applied during new construction

    Posted by delson on 5/12/05

    Dear Concerned,

    Please provide me with your phone number or contact me at 718-599-1221, I would
    like to talk to you.

    Thank You

    On 11/12/04, Concerned wrote:
    > I would have to agree with John L. This chat room should be promoting the
    > industry as a whole. I also agree with Robert, that the facts, not opinions
    > should be addressed. There can only be one set of facts. I have done
    > extensive research on the following: Aegis, BioShield, Nova, CIA, Microbe
    > Guard, Microshield, American Mold Guard, Envirocare, PCG, Anabec, Fosters,
    > Anti-growth, Mold Block, Microban and Fiberlock. I have contacted and spoke
    > to people at the EPA and the three different States.
    > THis industry is in a fast growing pace and growing faster everyday. THe more
    > attention this industry gets, the more people want to get involved. Everyone
    > makes claims, some true, most false. If we as and industry do not work
    > together to better the industry as a whole, then we are all doomed to be be
    > associated with fly by night con men. I operate a small mold prevention
    > business and have been a restoration contractor since 1985. I have used all
    > of the above manufacturers products. YES, all of them! I have worked with
    > half a dozen other mold prevention contractor around the country going over
    > the same issues that we are all discussing here.
    > I have spent my money to test and have tested all the above products. I have
    > spoke to several EPA officials, several building associations and several
    > States. Here is what I know as fact!
    > 1. MOld is the biggest issue facing builders and homeowners across the country.
    > 2. Mold is every where and on everything.
    > 3. Builders need to prevent the growth of mold on the homes that they build.
    > So what is the best product, or products to accomplish this? Is EPA
    > registration required? Is EPA Registration important? How important is a
    > warranty? What is the difference between manufacturer warranty and third
    > party warranty? Here are the facts!
    > 1. What mold prevention product(s) do you use?
    > Is it a private label name or is the real product name. Several people use
    > private labels of their product, however the products are the same. American
    > Mold Guard, Microbe Guard, Anabec and Nova use BioShield. CIA and Microbe
    > Guard use Aegis. Microshield and Fiberlock use Microban.
    > 2. Who manufacture’s the mold prevention product(s)?
    > To ensure the product is manufactured by recognized, reputable manufacturer.
    > How financially stable is the manufacturer, how long have they been in
    > business, who is backing the product should it fail? Aegis's product has been
    > around for 27 years, Bioshield's product for 12 years, Nova for 2 years,
    > Fosters' products for 10 years, Envirocare for 3 years, PCG less than 1 year,
    > Microban 5 years. A product that has not been out for long can not make any
    > real claims on performance, can they? How can they have any real case
    > studies? Real world and lab are WAAAYYYY different.
    > 3. Is the product(s) EPA Registered? Should it be? I have copied the
    > following from the EPA offical web site:
    > "EPA registers and regulates antimicrobial pesticides under the Federal
    > Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA). To obtain registration,
    > manufacturers of antimicrobial products must meet the basic standards, the
    > foremost being: 1) that the product will not cause unreasonable adverse
    > effects to human health or the environment, and 2) that product labeling and
    > composition comply with the requirements of FIFRA. Moreover, manufacturers are
    > required to submit to EPA detailed and specific information concerning the
    > chemical composition of their product; effectiveness data to document their
    > claims against specific microorganisms and to support the directions for use
    > provided in labeling; labeling that reflects the required elements for safe
    > and effective use; and toxicology data to document any hazards associated with
    > use of the product."
    > The Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) requires the
    > registration of any substance or mixtures of substances intended to prevent,
    > destroy, repel, or mitigate pests. However, the Code of Federal Regulations
    > prescribes the conditions under which an exemption from registration is
    > allowed for treated articles or substances. It allows an exemption for:
    > An article or a substance treated with or containing a pesticide to protect
    > the article or substance itself (for example, paint treated with a pesticide
    > to protect the paint coating) HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART THAT PCG,
    > •Claims for treated articles or substances are limited to the following
    > statement, "This product contains a preservative (e.g., fungicide or
    > insecticide) built-in or applied as a coating only to protect the product. An
    > example of an acceptable label statement would be:
    > Antimicrobial properties are built-in to inhibit the growth of bacteria that
    > may affect this product. The antimicrobial properties do not protect users or
    > others against bacteria, viruses, germs, or other disease organisms.
    > I have some first hand knowledge of this. I was sent a Cease & Desist order
    > from the EPA concerning the sell, application and marketing of PCG's three
    > products: Forticell, Agility and Mycodene. PCG was marketing their products
    > with claims that their product prevent the growth of mold on many surfaces.
    > THat is an illegal claim. PCG, Envirocare, Microban, Forticel and Mold Block
    > have EPA registered additives in their coating (paint) the coating can only
    > prevent the growth of mold on the surface of the paint coating. It will not
    > protect the wood or kill mold on the wood. I have copies of the Cease and
    > desist order should anyone like to see it.
    > 4.Provide MSDS and Technical Bulletin for each product.
    > The MSDS shows you the safety of the product and lists any dangerous
    > ingredients or dangerous health effects of the product. PCG do not even list
    > their ingredients. What are they hiding? BioShield, Nova, Fosters, Fiberlock
    > have several product for specific industries, make sure you get the right
    > one.The technical bulletin explains exactly how the product can be used as per
    > manufactures specifications.
    > 5.Does the company carry insurance that covers Mold or do they have E & O
    > insurance that covers mold? Almost every company told us that they have
    > insurance that covers mold. We checked. Most of them LIE! Ask for a copy of
    > their policy and call the insuarne company yourself.
    > 6.What warranty comes with your product and service? Manufacturer or third
    > party warranty?
    > Read and understand all warranties to verify what is being covered and how
    > much is being covered. I have seen much debate over this as of late. Do any
    > of you remember when H.O.W. filed for bankruptcy in the late 80's. THey left
    > hundreds of thousand of people with out warranties. EVERY STATE passed laws
    > after that to protect the consumer. Warranty Companies are now required to
    > keep 65&37; of their funds in an untouchable account and they can only
    warranty a
    > certain amount of business based on their finacial reserves. Manufacturers
    > can warranty anything that they want. What does this mean to all of us? ALL
    > warranties are only as good as the financial stability of the manufacturer.
    > THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO BE SURE OF!!!!!!!!!!!!! Several of the
    > above manufacturers just started out. I checked! PCG started in April of
    > 2004. My company is substantially bigger than them. Envirocare has been
    > kicked out of most markets by their own applicators. Microban has been kicked
    > out of many other countries, so they spun off a new Microban company. Fosters,
    > Aegis, Nova and Fiberlock are the only companies with any size. Nova is in
    > legal trouble with the owner of their technology, BioShield. Again, check the
    > facts, don't call the manufacturer. Anyone can tell you that they are
    > financially secure, if so, where are your financial statments? THird party
    > warranty is governed by insurance and state laws. Manufacturer warranties are
    > only as good as the manufacturer. Maybe the Manufacturer is much bigger than
    > the warranty company? Maybe the manufacturer is in big financial trouble?
    > 7. What is the chemistry behind the product or how does the product actually
    > prevent the growth of mold? Anyone can tell you that their product kills and
    > prevents the growth of mold, but how does it do it? The same way that we
    > can. Aegis, Anabec,American Mold Guard and Microbe Guard use a technology
    > based off a DOW Corning invention back in the 70's. Their products kill by
    > creating positively charge swords on the surface that is treated. THis stabbs
    > and electrocutes the mold. This coating is not digested by the mold and is a
    > permanent treatment. Envirocare and PCG use silver ions that are slowly
    > released when moisture is present to interupt the dna/growth/ cell activities
    > of the mold. THe mold most com into contact with the silver to be affected.
    > Good in theory, if you could plate the whole house. THis product will be
    > washed off water and overtime will be ineffective. Fosters, Fiberlock and
    > Microban use poisons. THe mold must digest the poison for the product to be
    > effective. This causes the product to loose effectiveness overtime as the
    > mold eats away the coating. It also cause the mold to become resistant to the
    > poison over time. Think about it, how does the mold prevention treatment
    > effect the mold? Stop believing what you hear and start believing in what you
    > see and prove for yourself.
    > 8.Are the applicators certified or trained to apply the product?
    > Microban, forticel, fosters, Nova, PCG and Envirocare certification is the
    > purchase of the product. In other words, there is NONE. If you buy it, you
    > can apply it. Agian I know because I have. Aegis makes you go through the
    > CIA or Microbe Guard. Microbe Guard and Anabec require training only if you
    > want a warranty.
    > 9.How long has their products been on the market? List references.
    > Products come and go. Lead paint and asbestos were thought to be safe and
    > turned out to be harmful. Just because they say it works in a lab, does not
    > mean that it works in real world applications. Show independent verification,
    > not in house verification. PCG just opened up, Envirocare's product came out
    > in 2002, Aegis's product came out in 1976, Foster's products came out over the
    > last ten years with products like 42-42 less than 2 years. Microban has
    > changed corporate structure so often I can't tell.
    > 10.How long have the companies you been in business?
    > Have the company been in business long enough to show their ability to survive
    > in a hostile market. Will they be around long enough to stand behind their
    > product? THis again falls back to who is backing the warranty? If the
    > manufacturer has been around for a long time, chances are they will remain.
    > If the manufacturer is new or has a short lived history, then I would want to
    > see some financial statsments.
    > 11.What professional organizations do you belong to?
    > Many organizations require training, proof of financial responsibility,
    > continued education and mandate ethical business practices. Request
    > verification of membership with professional organizations.
    > Call you local EPA OFFICE and ask them the questions. THey will point you to
    > the truth.
    > On 11/05/04, John L. wrote:
    >> On 11/03/04, Robert wrote:
    >>> On 11/03/04, Gilligan wrote:
    >>>> On 11/02/04, Robert wrote:
    >>>>> EPA registration is important only if you are actually applying a
    >>>>> pesticide. The EPA regulates pesticides. Most of the mold
    >>>>> prevention products do not contain pesticides. All the mold Killers
    >>>>> contain pesticides.
    >>>>> Paint products have all kinds of additives added to them and they do
    >>>>> not require EPA approval. The new mold prevention products are under
    >>>>> the same requirements. Those of you, who do not understand the
    >>>>> guidelines of the Gov't and what they are for are mislead
    >>>>> individuals.
    >>>>> I have been a builder for years and understand water intrusions and
    >>>>> mold. To prevent is better than to react.
    >>>>> Several of the products on the market are designed to kill existing
    >>>>> mold on the product surface. This is good, but they do not last
    >>>>> (check the warranty claims) they also can be washed off by a water
    >>>>> intrusion over time. (once again not good because mold needs moisture
    >>>>> to grow).
    >>>>> Once you actually check out the facts you all will see that you should
    >>>>> prevent mold growth over the long term, see your states home owners
    >>>>> warranty (most are 10 years and then some).
    >>>>> Be very careful of fast talking salesmen that try to scare you away
    >>>>> from products or into using product. These guys are no good. Check
    >>>>> the facts warranties are very important, and it doesn't really matter
    >>>>> what state the parent company resides in. If the manufacturer doesn't
    >>>>> warrant the product then don't trust them. Chevy and Ford stand
    >>>>> behind their products so do several companies out there.

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