Re: Mold Prevention coatings applied during new construction
Posted by delson on 5/12/05
Please provide me with your phone number or contact me at 718-599-1221, I would
like to talk to you.
On 11/12/04, Concerned wrote:
> I would have to agree with John L. This chat room should be promoting the
> industry as a whole. I also agree with Robert, that the facts, not opinions
> should be addressed. There can only be one set of facts. I have done
> extensive research on the following: Aegis, BioShield, Nova, CIA, Microbe
> Guard, Microshield, American Mold Guard, Envirocare, PCG, Anabec, Fosters,
> Anti-growth, Mold Block, Microban and Fiberlock. I have contacted and spoke
> to people at the EPA and the three different States.
> THis industry is in a fast growing pace and growing faster everyday. THe more
> attention this industry gets, the more people want to get involved. Everyone
> makes claims, some true, most false. If we as and industry do not work
> together to better the industry as a whole, then we are all doomed to be be
> associated with fly by night con men. I operate a small mold prevention
> business and have been a restoration contractor since 1985. I have used all
> of the above manufacturers products. YES, all of them! I have worked with
> half a dozen other mold prevention contractor around the country going over
> the same issues that we are all discussing here.
> I have spent my money to test and have tested all the above products. I have
> spoke to several EPA officials, several building associations and several
> States. Here is what I know as fact!
> 1. MOld is the biggest issue facing builders and homeowners across the country.
> 2. Mold is every where and on everything.
> 3. Builders need to prevent the growth of mold on the homes that they build.
> So what is the best product, or products to accomplish this? Is EPA
> registration required? Is EPA Registration important? How important is a
> warranty? What is the difference between manufacturer warranty and third
> party warranty? Here are the facts!
> 1. What mold prevention product(s) do you use?
> Is it a private label name or is the real product name. Several people use
> private labels of their product, however the products are the same. American
> Mold Guard, Microbe Guard, Anabec and Nova use BioShield. CIA and Microbe
> Guard use Aegis. Microshield and Fiberlock use Microban.
> 2. Who manufacture’s the mold prevention product(s)?
> To ensure the product is manufactured by recognized, reputable manufacturer.
> How financially stable is the manufacturer, how long have they been in
> business, who is backing the product should it fail? Aegis's product has been
> around for 27 years, Bioshield's product for 12 years, Nova for 2 years,
> Fosters' products for 10 years, Envirocare for 3 years, PCG less than 1 year,
> Microban 5 years. A product that has not been out for long can not make any
> real claims on performance, can they? How can they have any real case
> studies? Real world and lab are WAAAYYYY different.
> 3. Is the product(s) EPA Registered? Should it be? I have copied the
> following from the EPA offical web site:
> "EPA registers and regulates antimicrobial pesticides under the Federal
> Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA). To obtain registration,
> manufacturers of antimicrobial products must meet the basic standards, the
> foremost being: 1) that the product will not cause unreasonable adverse
> effects to human health or the environment, and 2) that product labeling and
> composition comply with the requirements of FIFRA. Moreover, manufacturers are
> required to submit to EPA detailed and specific information concerning the
> chemical composition of their product; effectiveness data to document their
> claims against specific microorganisms and to support the directions for use
> provided in labeling; labeling that reflects the required elements for safe
> and effective use; and toxicology data to document any hazards associated with
> use of the product."
> The Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) requires the
> registration of any substance or mixtures of substances intended to prevent,
> destroy, repel, or mitigate pests. However, the Code of Federal Regulations
> prescribes the conditions under which an exemption from registration is
> allowed for treated articles or substances. It allows an exemption for:
> An article or a substance treated with or containing a pesticide to protect
> the article or substance itself (for example, paint treated with a pesticide
> to protect the paint coating) HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART THAT PCG,
> ENVIROCARE, FORTICEL, FOSTERS AND MOLD BLOCK DO NOT WNAT YOU TO KNOW OR MAYBE
> THEY DO NOT KNOW IT THEMSELFS;
> •Claims for treated articles or substances are limited to the following
> statement, "This product contains a preservative (e.g., fungicide or
> insecticide) built-in or applied as a coating only to protect the product. An
> example of an acceptable label statement would be:
> Antimicrobial properties are built-in to inhibit the growth of bacteria that
> may affect this product. The antimicrobial properties do not protect users or
> others against bacteria, viruses, germs, or other disease organisms.
> I have some first hand knowledge of this. I was sent a Cease & Desist order
> from the EPA concerning the sell, application and marketing of PCG's three
> products: Forticell, Agility and Mycodene. PCG was marketing their products
> with claims that their product prevent the growth of mold on many surfaces.
> THat is an illegal claim. PCG, Envirocare, Microban, Forticel and Mold Block
> have EPA registered additives in their coating (paint) the coating can only
> prevent the growth of mold on the surface of the paint coating. It will not
> protect the wood or kill mold on the wood. I have copies of the Cease and
> desist order should anyone like to see it.
> 4.Provide MSDS and Technical Bulletin for each product.
> The MSDS shows you the safety of the product and lists any dangerous
> ingredients or dangerous health effects of the product. PCG do not even list
> their ingredients. What are they hiding? BioShield, Nova, Fosters, Fiberlock
> have several product for specific industries, make sure you get the right
> one.The technical bulletin explains exactly how the product can be used as per
> manufactures specifications.
> 5.Does the company carry insurance that covers Mold or do they have E & O
> insurance that covers mold? Almost every company told us that they have
> insurance that covers mold. We checked. Most of them LIE! Ask for a copy of
> their policy and call the insuarne company yourself.
> 6.What warranty comes with your product and service? Manufacturer or third
> party warranty?
> Read and understand all warranties to verify what is being covered and how
> much is being covered. I have seen much debate over this as of late. Do any
> of you remember when H.O.W. filed for bankruptcy in the late 80's. THey left
> hundreds of thousand of people with out warranties. EVERY STATE passed laws
> after that to protect the consumer. Warranty Companies are now required to
> keep 65&37; of their funds in an untouchable account and they can only
> certain amount of business based on their finacial reserves. Manufacturers
> can warranty anything that they want. What does this mean to all of us? ALL
> warranties are only as good as the financial stability of the manufacturer.
> THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO BE SURE OF!!!!!!!!!!!!! Several of the
> above manufacturers just started out. I checked! PCG started in April of
> 2004. My company is substantially bigger than them. Envirocare has been
> kicked out of most markets by their own applicators. Microban has been kicked
> out of many other countries, so they spun off a new Microban company. Fosters,
> Aegis, Nova and Fiberlock are the only companies with any size. Nova is in
> legal trouble with the owner of their technology, BioShield. Again, check the
> facts, don't call the manufacturer. Anyone can tell you that they are
> financially secure, if so, where are your financial statments? THird party
> warranty is governed by insurance and state laws. Manufacturer warranties are
> only as good as the manufacturer. Maybe the Manufacturer is much bigger than
> the warranty company? Maybe the manufacturer is in big financial trouble?
> 7. What is the chemistry behind the product or how does the product actually
> prevent the growth of mold? Anyone can tell you that their product kills and
> prevents the growth of mold, but how does it do it? The same way that we
> can. Aegis, Anabec,American Mold Guard and Microbe Guard use a technology
> based off a DOW Corning invention back in the 70's. Their products kill by
> creating positively charge swords on the surface that is treated. THis stabbs
> and electrocutes the mold. This coating is not digested by the mold and is a
> permanent treatment. Envirocare and PCG use silver ions that are slowly
> released when moisture is present to interupt the dna/growth/ cell activities
> of the mold. THe mold most com into contact with the silver to be affected.
> Good in theory, if you could plate the whole house. THis product will be
> washed off water and overtime will be ineffective. Fosters, Fiberlock and
> Microban use poisons. THe mold must digest the poison for the product to be
> effective. This causes the product to loose effectiveness overtime as the
> mold eats away the coating. It also cause the mold to become resistant to the
> poison over time. Think about it, how does the mold prevention treatment
> effect the mold? Stop believing what you hear and start believing in what you
> see and prove for yourself.
> 8.Are the applicators certified or trained to apply the product?
> Microban, forticel, fosters, Nova, PCG and Envirocare certification is the
> purchase of the product. In other words, there is NONE. If you buy it, you
> can apply it. Agian I know because I have. Aegis makes you go through the
> CIA or Microbe Guard. Microbe Guard and Anabec require training only if you
> want a warranty.
> 9.How long has their products been on the market? List references.
> Products come and go. Lead paint and asbestos were thought to be safe and
> turned out to be harmful. Just because they say it works in a lab, does not
> mean that it works in real world applications. Show independent verification,
> not in house verification. PCG just opened up, Envirocare's product came out
> in 2002, Aegis's product came out in 1976, Foster's products came out over the
> last ten years with products like 42-42 less than 2 years. Microban has
> changed corporate structure so often I can't tell.
> 10.How long have the companies you been in business?
> Have the company been in business long enough to show their ability to survive
> in a hostile market. Will they be around long enough to stand behind their
> product? THis again falls back to who is backing the warranty? If the
> manufacturer has been around for a long time, chances are they will remain.
> If the manufacturer is new or has a short lived history, then I would want to
> see some financial statsments.
> 11.What professional organizations do you belong to?
> Many organizations require training, proof of financial responsibility,
> continued education and mandate ethical business practices. Request
> verification of membership with professional organizations.
> Call you local EPA OFFICE and ask them the questions. THey will point you to
> the truth.
> On 11/05/04, John L. wrote:
>> On 11/03/04, Robert wrote:
>>> On 11/03/04, Gilligan wrote:
>>>> On 11/02/04, Robert wrote:
>>>>> EPA registration is important only if you are actually applying a
>>>>> pesticide. The EPA regulates pesticides. Most of the mold
>>>>> prevention products do not contain pesticides. All the mold Killers
>>>>> contain pesticides.
>>>>> Paint products have all kinds of additives added to them and they do
>>>>> not require EPA approval. The new mold prevention products are under
>>>>> the same requirements. Those of you, who do not understand the
>>>>> guidelines of the Gov't and what they are for are mislead
>>>>> I have been a builder for years and understand water intrusions and
>>>>> mold. To prevent is better than to react.
>>>>> Several of the products on the market are designed to kill existing
>>>>> mold on the product surface. This is good, but they do not last
>>>>> (check the warranty claims) they also can be washed off by a water
>>>>> intrusion over time. (once again not good because mold needs moisture
>>>>> to grow).
>>>>> Once you actually check out the facts you all will see that you should
>>>>> prevent mold growth over the long term, see your states home owners
>>>>> warranty (most are 10 years and then some).
>>>>> Be very careful of fast talking salesmen that try to scare you away
>>>>> from products or into using product. These guys are no good. Check
>>>>> the facts warranties are very important, and it doesn't really matter
>>>>> what state the parent company resides in. If the manufacturer doesn't
>>>>> warrant the product then don't trust them. Chevy and Ford stand
>>>>> behind their products so do several companies out there.
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