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Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker
Posted by ff on 1/20/08


    Tracy and Ticked off:

    On 1/20/08, ff wrote:
    >
    > >>> Hi, Tracy:
    >>>
    >>> My first recollection is of thoughts I had about, not necessarily your
    >>> situation, but the broad picture. That is, many, in similar situations as
    >>> yours, go through extended efforts and mutiple visits, and often we hear about
    >>> the inability, unwillingness, or even refusal of MD's to devote time/interest
    >>> needed to solve these problems.
    >


    INCLUDING ME! Yeah, I went through the exercise too, the exhaustion, in fact,
    with mutiple entities including MD's, health related agencies, toxicologists, a
    multitude of specialists etc. That's what bothers me, but I am not posting their
    names along with an outpouring of personal detail. I don't even want to condemn by
    name those that screwed up, that's not going to get us anywhere.

    That's just my opinion.

    And, I wouldn't insult any MD by implying I'm one, that's nuts, in in comparing me
    eith a professional, probably libel, slander, etc.?

    ff

    >
    >>>
    >>> I think that the total of such experiences above, when weighed against one MD
    >>> that does address the problem, warrants focusing on the help from that one MD.
    >>>
    >>> Regarding the post/s below, ?, I don't understand. Where does all of that
    >>> get you/us?
    >
    > Where does it get you, or me, in seeking help, effective treatment?
    >
    > As far as agreeing/disagreeing, I appreciate differing
    >>> opinions...when presented in a constructive manner. I'm not going to argue or
    >>> debate it, unless you find it necessary or helpful in some way, and I
    >>> certainly do not mind hearing criticism. I pretty patient, tolerant, have at
    >>> it. But, I always, hope the best for everyone.
    >>>
    >>> ff
    >>>
    >>> On 1/09/08, Tracy wrote:
    >>>> Hi all,
    >>>> ff, do you mean regarding my statement that I am giving all the facts and
    >>>> letting others make their own interpretations? You have a point- I clearly
    >>>> put in there my impressions, and then my discomfort. I did go in being very
    >>>> objective (read my post below)- you applauded me for that.
    >>>> What is important though presently, is that I backed up every conclusion I
    >>>> came too, lest it become 'bitching'. Actually, 'bashing' might be a better
    >>>> word- I had seen some of this before on this thread. I clearly presently
    >>>> state what has made me feel this way and that way. With what I have
    >>> written,
    >>>> people can still see the facts as they happened, and can form their own
    >>>> interpretations. I did not leave any actions/details out, for that
    >>> purpose.
    >>>> This can offer some validation to those who DO experience some of what I
    >>>> experienced (sounds like there were a handfull). You are a lucky one who
    >>> did
    >>>> not. I'm glad for you. Your case was probably 'clear cut' (I'm not
    >>> referring
    >>>> to severity). For folks whom have or had Lyme, it can often become very
    >>>> complicated, and they need to be monitored on seemingly innocuous
    >>> medications.
    >>>>
    >>>> One interesting thing -when you liked what I wrote (philosopical statements,
    >>>> absense of much emotion), and when I posted things that backed up your
    >>>> experience, you were quick to support me. Now that I have added to my
    >>>> picture (NOT CHANGED MY PHILOSOPHY) an interpersonal component, and one that
    >>>> differs from what you experienced, you are quick to find fault with me.
    >>>> Especially when a situation is as delicate as this, there are so many other
    >>>> things you can be focusing on in my writing, as opposed to catching me up on
    >>>> my statement that I was trying to be non-judgemental. I suppose that is the
    >>>> easier thing to do. Read your response and my first post (below).
    >>>>
    >>>> On 6/14/07, ff wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Tracy:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Thank you for your post, well written and needed.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> In reading recent submissions on the board, several points/facts stand out
    >>>>> to me and I'll lightly hit on a few. Science is "business" in some cases
    >>>>> (something we all know), and there are companies that
    >>>>> manufacture/fabricate opinions which are essentially sold - i.e. science
    >>>>> for sale. This is done with knowlegde and intent being to prevail in
    >>>>> various, with disregard for truth, scienctific validity, and injury to
    >>>>> opposing sides. What should be shocking to all, if I read this correctly,
    >>>>> is that these illegitimate services are sold to, and willingly used by,
    >>>>> governmental agencies in contradiction to their statutory/legislative duty.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It has been my observation over the years that the principals involved in
    >>>>> such efforts, rarely conduct primary research and often enter into
    >>>>> different issues which require different expertise, of which they do not
    >>>>> have. They are successful largely due to the commercial and governmental
    >>>>> backing and support, which is skillfully used to convince an unsuspecting
    >>>>> public.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If the above allegations are correct, in that the collusion results in
    >>>>> failure to provde for human health, thereby causing injury to continue,
    >>>>> both commercial and governmental entities should be held accountable.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Regarding Dr. Shoemaker, I watched the process at work. But let me state
    >>>>> that in the situation I am intimately familiar with, he was not
    >>>>> discredited by any means. A major human health and environmental
    >>>>> disaster, worldwide, was buried by way of corporate influence and
    >>>>> attorneys, in my opinion, converging on the agencies and paving the way
    >>>>> for scientists/consultants hired by the liable party to redirect the
    >>>>> science effort, avoiding causation. This was simply damage control and
    >>>>> it's done all the time.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The position held by those scientists/consultants hired by coporate
    >>>>> defense counsel, is contradicted by internal corporate documentation. In
    >>>>> other words, corporate attorneys brought in consultants to make argumenrts
    >>>>> that contradict what they really knew. This invovled a chemical and long
    >>>>> term effects on microflora/fauna, and biotoxins. One scientist stated
    >>>>> that he found it hard to believe that a chemical that disappears could
    >>>>> cause a long term problem. Inside the corporate documentation, their own
    >>>>> employee/scientists proved that, based on his experiments recorded in lab
    >>>>> notebooks and other document@ion, after one application, the chemical
    >>>>> was still biologically active after four years. I wonder if the outside
    >>>>> consultants knew this?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Fortunately for me personally, Dr/ Shoemaker's treament was effective on
    >>>>> both the chemical toxins, and the biological toxins. VCS readings aligned
    >>>>> perfectly with treatment, time, and improvement. Interestingly, on the
    >>>>> chemical side, EPA's manual on treating poisoning recommended the same
    >>>>> chemical. With an estimated 120,000 exposures in Florida alone, EPA never
    >>>>> let it out that they had a remedy. Similarly, the VCS test caused them to
    >>>>> scramble for cover:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> EPA recommending an antidote would suggest there was in fact a problem,
    >>>>> and the liability for 120,000 FL workers was astronomical. EPA takes the
    >>>>> stand that there could not be a problem, essentially because with
    >>>>> registration by EPA, the chemical was obviously safe.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Recognizing Dr. Shoemaker's effective use of VCS would allow or lead to
    >>>>> the identification of disease, in contradiction to the biggest scheme run
    >>>>> by the agencies in these types of situations - "No identifiable disease".
    >>>>> which was made certain by industry and government collusion in a damage
    >>>>> control effort. Unfortunately, in this issue, as is so often seen, no
    >>>>> alternative cause was suggested, much less the actual cause, leaving the
    >>>>> victims without any hope of a cure. Be careful when studies conclude by
    >>>>> telling you what it is not, rather than what it is.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Agencies with statutory obligation to provide for human health, align with
    >>>>> industry in damage control schemes based on manufactured or
    >>>>> fabricated "science". Recent posts here have disclosed that business
    >>>>> entities, essentially sell this "science" to both industry and
    >>>>> governmental agencies, which is then used for damage control. Legitimate
    >>>>> science and medical treatments are abandoned in the name of damage control
    >>>>> with disregard for human health.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Legitimate scientists hired by corporations may (routinely) proceed absent
    >>>>> knowledge held tightly within corporations which often contradicting the
    >>>>> more favorable conclusions by the unsuspecting legitimate outside
    >>>>> scientists. This is why I keep warning Deano to be careful or sure he
    >>>>> hasn't been had by industry's scam on chemicals, pathogens, and mycotoxins
    >>>>> in the food chain and/or IAQ.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> In the above chemical-intitiated microbial disaster where the science
    >>>>> effort was derailed to avoid liability, the scientists opposing Dr.
    >>>>> Shoemaker's research protocol lacked the necessary experitise, research,
    >>>>> and internal corporate knowlegde. They also were not Medical Doctors,
    >>>>> much less in practice, which is overly convenient for those not wanting to
    >>>>> risk disease identification best accomplished a prcticing MD/Researcher
    >>>>> such as Dr. Shoemaker. Accordingly, when the agenies' study proceeded,
    >>>>> interviews were not even conducted by health care professionals, but by an
    >>>>> IAQ lab.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The IAQ lab offers another great example of entities moving forward having
    >>>>> accepted as fact, opinions interjected by scientist/consultants hired by
    >>>>> legal counsel for the liable corporation, which is contradicted by
    >>>>> internal documents/research. You have to wonder, and so should the lab
    >>>>> have wondered, if legitimate science required participation by a
    >>>>> corporation facing potential liability if their chemcial were found to be
    >>>>> the cause.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> By the way, thanks to Dr. Shoemaker for his expertise and willingness to
    >>>>> to solve health problems without which, I doubt I would be here today.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ff
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 6/13/07, Tracy Hans wrote:
    >>>>>> Hi! In reading the entire discussion, I want to contribute my thoughts.
    >>>>>> I am tired and a bit irritated from reading some of these posts, feel
    >>>>>> the need to respond.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Advancing medicine, or the health field involves theoretical
    >>>>>> postulation. Empirical evidence is not borne from scientific testing
    >>>>>> without theory.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> No progress is made without taking risks. Very few doctors will do so,
    >>>>>> for fear- fear of being proven wrong, fear of patients lawsuit, fear of
    >>>>>> going against the grain, fear of learning that their formal training was
    >>>>>> flawed, fear of success, even. A combination of some of these fears,
    >>>>>> perhaps.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> For those of us whom have suffered from chronic illness that 3/4 of the
    >>>>>> traditional docs will not listen to (question, explore, experiment,
    >>>>>> etc.), I would wager a bet that almost all of us would put our wellbeing
    >>>>>> on the line to experiment, as long as there is no mounting evidence of
    >>>>>> the DANGER of the protocol. Where are the posts on that? You can blast
    >>>>>> things (ideas and people), but if the blasting is just focused on
    >>>>>> someone's LACK of evidence, that means little to me (and probably other
    >>>>>> sufferers out there). Focus your time, if you'd like, on proving the
    >>>>>> danger in a protocol. Or in explaining other theories that might
    >>>>>> underlie the patterns we see (with symptomatology clusters). Then I
    >>>>>> would say that we should really listen to you. It sounds to me that some
    >>>>>> blast just to blast. Ridiculous that someone posts, saying that they
    >>>>>> have evidence of medical quackery because they were the doctor's
    >>>>>> roommate, and they were introduced once, erroneously.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I see a doc who mounted the evidence, despite traditional testing, that
    >>>>>> I have Lyme. All prior docs stated that the "Scientific Evidence"
    >>>>>> proved I didn't have it (despite a mildly high lyme titer and mildly
    >>>>>> abnormal (high) lyme spinal tap results, high c3/c4 complement levels,
    >>>>>> high SED and CRP, CCRP). It was my current, -very special- MD that
    >>>>>> looked at a brain SPECT scan, a CD57 (Stricker panel test), bioenergetic
    >>>>>> (EDV test), and now toxin related tests. If you add up now the big
    >>>>>> picture, it spells LYME. Everything else known to man at this time
    >>>>>> seems to have been cancelled out. Hey.. she also tested me for co-
    >>>>>> infections, and guess what???
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> So STILL NOW, 9 out of 10 doctors who say they treat Lyme, would say
    >>>>>> there is nothing wrong with me.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> So who am I likely to go with... those who need 'textbook or CDC proof',
    >>>>>> or those who say "Hey, I have a theory, let's try something"?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> What it comes down to, is I cannot walk without pain. And I am still in
    >>>>>> so much gastrointestinal pain (after 10 years of pharmaceutically
    >>>>>> treating the symptom which traditional docs state was/is acid reflux).
    >>>>>> Once I started reading, listening to open-minded docs, and grasped
    >>>>>> infection theories (and some theories which Dr. Shoemaker write about),
    >>>>>> I found people to help me. I told a nice but 'traditional' GI doc to
    >>>>>> PCR scope me for Lyme and co-infections that came up as IgG
    >>>>>> (inactive/supposedly prior infection) in my blood, and Guess what? I
    >>>>>> don't even need to tell you 'guess what'. I then found a naturopath who
    >>>>>> monitors yeast and other things in my blood via dried blood analysis.
    >>>>>> Separate docs have now given me enough information to fit the patterns,
    >>>>>> substantiated in the theories of the docs often knocked. This
    >>>>>> Naturopath was the first to be able to TOUCH the GI pain, by giving me
    >>>>>> ALOE VERA stomach formula- a temporary fix. No purple pill did that for
    >>>>>> 5 minutes. So now, at this point, I realize that sticking with
    >>>>>> traditional medicine hasn't panned out for over 10 years. That's enough
    >>>>>> evidence for me. Tracy


     
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