Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker
Posted by Claire on 3/13/07
Don't waste your money on Shoemaker, he's a quack and has bad ethics. I'm looking for a doctor in the Baltimore area. I was given the name of Kenneth Singleton in Towson, he tests for lymes and other viruses and bacteria. My experience with Dr. Shoemaker and his staff proved not only a fruitless venture but they were very rude people too. Clearly this man is all about one thing, and one thing ONLY--M-O-N-E-Y! Don't waste your time. There's other legitimate and caring doctors out there who are science based and not selfish quacks like this fellow. Claire On 7/02/06, ed cohen wrote: > On 7/02/06, ed cohen wrote: > I am thinking about visiting shoemaker. does anyone know anf ANY severe MCS patient that > shoemaker has cured? >> On 5/06/06, Holly wrote: >>> Does anyone know or have taken griseofulvin and been effected with a liver disease such >>> as autoimmune hepatitis? Griseofulvin is a poison that was given to my 11 year old >>> daughter and I'm doing my own research. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> On 10/10/05, terry wrote: >>>> On 10/08/05, ANN wrote: >>>>> On 2/01/05, Eric wrote: >>>>>> On 2/01/05, Greg Weatherman wrote: >>>>>>> Eric, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You don't appear to comprehend very well what you read or you are self-obsessed >>>>>>> with your opinions. I have put the comments below each statement so you can >>>>>>> watch the bouncing red ball without getting lost. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *************************************************** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adding an "a" to the end of my name is childish. And I suggest to you that >>>>>>>> you've taken too personally my criticisms of Dr. Shoemaker. And so you say >>>>>>>> that writing is taught, eh? >>>>>>> ************************************************************ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have known Dr. Shoemaker for 3 years. I think he is a fine person and a >>>>>>> doctor who will go to the ends of earth to find a way to help his patients >>>>>>> unlike the cattle promenade that is today's HMO run hospitals. I have referred >>>>>>> customers to him and they contact me later to thank me after they have some >>>>>>> normalcy to their lives. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I HAVE ONE THING TO SAY ABOUT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE MYCOTOXINS CAUSE ILLNESS: >>>>> YOU'RE IDIOTS! I WAS ALSO A VERY EDUCATED NURSE, WORKING IN A HOSPITAL. I ALSO >>>>> WORKED MANY CODES IN WHICH I WAS AN INTEGRAL PART OF "BRINGING PEOPLE BACK FROM THE >>>>> DEAD." I ALSO, HOWEVER, WORKED IN AN EXTREMELY MOLDY BUILDING--IN WHICH MANY MANY >>>>> PEOPLE BECAME SERIOUSLY ILL, WITH ASPIRGILLUS PNEUMONIAS, LUPUS, SCLERODERMA, MS, >>>>> TRANSVERSE MYELITIS, & OTHER HORRIFIC DISEASES. EDUCATE YOURSELF--& DON'T BORE THE >>>>> REST OF US WITH YOUR IGNORANCE. DR SHOEMAKER IS CORRECT, DR A.V. CONSTANTINI IS >>>>> CORRECT, & SO ARE MANY OTHERS. >>>>> ANN >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ************************************************************ >>>>>>> Well I've got news for you. First, I'm a >>>>>>>> Registered Nurse with over 10 years hospital experience; the last five of >>>>>>>> which are in Critical Care. And I've saved hundreds of lives, sir; many dying >>>>>>>> from toxic related shock and septicemia. Secondly, I've brought people back >>>>>>>> from the dead, have you? I've brought people back from the dead from my >>>>>>>> running the codes and directing and giving orders without the help of >>>>>>>> fumbiling doctors. >>>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>>> I hear the music for "The Twilight Zone" playing in the background. FF is too >>>>>>> nice. You are an absolute nutjob and possibly dangerous in a healthcare >>>>>>> setting. I hope you will get counseling. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **************************************************************** >>>>>>> Second, I'm in school for my master's degree and third, I'm >>>>>>>> a published writer. Now that the educational discrepencies are out of the way >>>>>>>> I'll say this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **************************************************************** >>>>>>> A masters in nursing is not even in the same hemisphere as a medical doctorate >>>>>>> before residency. You are not qualified to diagnose or treat illness. As far >>>>>>> as writing goes, writing on restroom walls is not to be confused with publishing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **************************************************************** >>>>>>> Dr. Shoemaker may very well be on to something, he may very >>>>>>>> well be right. And I agree with you, that there are plenty of warning signs >>>>>>>> out right now to suggest that mold causes human illness. I'm open to that. And >>>>>>>> I'm also chronically aware that lest then two hundred years ago people new >>>>>>>> nothing of Bacteria, let alone viruses and prions. >>>>>>> ****************************************************************** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pharmaceitical drugs are derived from toxins produced various forms of mold and >>>>>>> bacteria to suppress the immune system. What do your studies indicate the >>>>>>> occurence of these compounds do when they are aquired from the environment? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>>> The problem I have with Dr. >>>>>>>> Shoemaker is that his treatment modalities are unproven. Every study I've read >>>>>>>> on Choelystriamine conflict. I've even talked to a colleague of mine whose >>>>>>>> Brother-In-Law helped design and pioneer Choleystiramine. Even he doesn't >>>>>>>> know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>>> Only you know the authorities since you are the only authority. I see a pattern. >>>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And my wife is diagnosed by Dr. Shoemaker as having a neurotoxin >>>>>>>> mediated illness from Aspirgillus. And the bottom line is this, I've >>>>>>>> instructed my wife to stop Choleystiramine and drink water and eat healthier >>>>>>>> and excericise on a daily basis; you know what? She feels even better than >>>>>>>> before she started the drug. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You are a nurse not a doctor. You have essentially practiced medicine without a >>>>>>> license. You have done this with your wife. You may hve a moldy home and do >>>>>>> not want the expense of fixing the moldy home so you stick your head in the sand >>>>>>> and deny. It is sad you have put your wife through this hell. If you want to >>>>>>> hurt yourself, fine. Leave others out of your destructive path. I bet >>>>>>> Aspergillis versicolor was the mold in question. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>>> Here is another bottom line. Medicine is evidence >>>>>>>> based, not theory based. Shoemaker treats without proof and ABOVE ALL, he >>>>>>>> should not only be open to criticism, as should you, especially with unprooven >>>>>>>> modalities, but he should even welcome it. As any pioneering reasercher would. >>>>>>>> It is not Shoemaker vs. the Establishment. His priorities should be isolating >>>>>>>> the neruotoxin and then, with double blind, placebo-controlled groups, finding >>>>>>>> a way to measure for the toxin level drop in blood, while detecting an >>>>>>>> increase in feces. We can do that with Cholstridium. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **************************************************************** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First, we can't poison people to see if we can cure them. Dr. Mengele did this >>>>>>> type of research and was punished. I'm sure Dr. Mengele had some "delusions of >>>>>>> granduer" as well, Herr Eric. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Second, "Koch's Postulates" don't work with toxins and allergens too well. He >>>>>>> did this with TB and Anthrax which are pathogens. Rat studies have been done >>>>>>> with fumonisin B and CSM. This is as close to "Koch's Postulates" as you can >>>>>>> get. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **************************************************************** >>>>>>> And so you don't know >>>>>>>> anything about Dr. Shoemaker's warning letter, huh? Then do this, unless >>>>>>>> you're afraid to. Bring up the Google web browser and type, in this order: >>>>>>>> Shoemaker, Ritchie C. And there, in pretty blue letters, right at the tipy-top >>>>>>>> of the page, will be his FDA warning letter about using the doggie medicine >>>>>>>> Staphage Lysate on Humans. Woof-Woof! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>>> Anyone can get this letter form the internet at: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning_letters/g4710d.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It looks like a paperwork issue to me. He is still operating and doing research >>>>>>> under FDA rules. He must have had a need for a fine nurse such as yourelf >>>>>>> to "save" his patients from "fumbiling doctors". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have provided a link at the bottom of page. Look for the human clinical >>>>>>> trials mentioned back in 1994. Did your wife have a nasal inflamation and a >>>>>>> nose swab was positive for "methicillin resistant, coaglative-negative >>>>>>> Staphylococcus"? WOOF, WOOF? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Take the hole pill, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg Weatherman >>>>>>> aerobioLogical Solutions Inc. >>>>>>> Arlington VA 22202 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> gw@aerobiological.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>> The other day I took Dr. Shoemaker's treatment, and he turned me into a doggie. >>>>>> Woof! Woof! I'm just going to prentend Shoemaker is right because I need a hero. >>>>>> Woof! Woof! I'm a fan of Dr. Shoemaker's and also a Lord of the Rings Fan. >>>>>> Woof! Woof! Dr. Shoemaker hasn't treated any body CRITICALLY ILL or with SWANZ- >>>>>> GANZ catheters in over twenty years. Woof! Woof! Dr. Shoemkaer has the LEAST >>>>>> amount of training required to practice as a doctor. Woof! Woof! Dr. Shoemkaer >>>>>> treats LYMES disease with ACTOS, Woof! Woof! Every Doctor I've talked too, who has >>>>>> researched the issue, thinks he's a quack! Woof! Woof! I'm a technician at >>>>>> aerobioLogical Solutions Inc. Woof! Woof! I deliever the mail. And the bottom >>>>>> line, Mr. Greg Weatherman, is that I know a hell of a lot more about disease >>>>>> process and the anatomoy of the human body than you! Woof! Woof!
Posts on this thread, including this one
- shoemaker, 10/08/03, by sacliff@msn.com.
- Re: shoemaker, 10/09/03, by ff.
- Re: shoemaker, 10/11/03, by sherrie.
- Re: shoemaker, 10/12/03, by ff.
- Re: sherri eseeking info, 10/12/03, by ff.
- Re: sherri eseeking info, 10/15/03, by sherrie.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 12/01/03, by Terry Elias.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/29/04, by Nancy Bramson.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 2/10/04, by Teresa Greene.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 2/13/04, by Karen Parisis.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 3/29/04, by IanChristopher.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 3/29/04, by IanChristopher.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 4/02/04, by Gloria Horsley.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 4/02/04, by SD Teacher.
- Re: sherri eseeking info, 4/12/04, by sherrie.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/03/05, by john biles.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/04/05, by Greg Weatherman.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/06/05, by Kay Bowers.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/07/05, by curious.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/25/05, by Eric.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/25/05, by Greg Weatherman.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/29/05, by Eric.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/29/05, by Eric.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 1/29/05, by Eric.
- Re: ERIC, 1/30/05, by ff.
- Re: ERIC, 1/30/05, by ff.
- Re: shoemaker, 1/31/05, by Jyl Burgener.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 2/01/05, by Eric.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 2/02/05, by ff.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 2/24/05, by suzanne mccavanagh.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 2/24/05, by suzanne mccavanagh.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 3/29/05, by Janice.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker - wow, i'm stunned, 3/30/05, by mary.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker - wow, i'm stunned, 3/30/05, by Greg Weatherman.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker - wow, i'm stunned, 3/30/05, by mary.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 3/30/05, by v.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 5/12/05, by Andrea.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 5/22/05, by ZXR90.
- Re: shoemaker, 8/01/05, by Jim.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 8/05/05, by Linda Lee Johnson.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 8/05/05, by Linda Lee Johnson.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 9/14/05, by vivian.
- Re: shoemaker, 9/14/05, by vivian.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 10/08/05, by ANN.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 10/08/05, by ANN.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 10/10/05, by terry.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 11/27/05, by Marty Clarke.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 12/20/05, by Kurt D. Winterkorn.
- Re: Dr. Wintercorn, 12/21/05, by ff.
- Re: Dr. Shoemaker/Mr. Winterkorn, 12/21/05, by Tammy.
- Re: Dr. Wintercorn, 12/21/05, by v.
- Re: Re:Tammy/Mrs. Winterkorn, 12/23/05, by ff.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 12/23/05, by TMV.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 12/23/05, by A Griffith.
- Re: Re:Tammy/Mrs. Winterkorn, 12/23/05, by Greg Weatherman.
- Re: FF, 1/11/06, by DD.
- Re: FF, 2/28/06, by Sue.
- Re: FF, 2/28/06, by Sue.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 3/21/06, by Pat Romanosky.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 5/06/06, by Holly.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 7/02/06, by ed cohen.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 7/02/06, by ed cohen.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 9/11/06, by ANDREE Tanner.
- Re: shoemaker, 11/27/06, by Craig.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 11/29/06, by NOT AMUSED.
- Re: shoemaker, 12/16/06, by Kay.
- Re: shoemaker, 12/29/06, by AmerAcadMed1.
- Re: shoemaker, 3/13/07, by Claire.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 3/13/07, by Claire.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 3/14/07, by Fanua SP. (SCUPS-Student).
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 4/13/07, by Cindy Fulghum.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker--BAD EXPERIENCE WITH DR. SHOEMAKER, 5/01/07, by Virginia.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker--BAD EXPERIENCE WITH DR. SHOEMAKER, 5/01/07, by Virginia.
- Re: shoemaker, a real cruel stinker, 5/01/07, by Virginia.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 5/10/07, by David MacRae.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 6/13/07, by Tracy Hans.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 6/14/07, by ff.
- Re: shoemaker, a real cruel stinker -- WRONG!!, 8/01/07, by dlpgppmi.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 8/05/07, by john LaRocque.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 8/05/07, by john LaRocque.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker--I'm not!!!!!, 9/09/07, by DC chick.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 9/09/07, by dc chick.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 9/09/07, by DC CHICK.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 9/09/07, by dc chick.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 9/09/07, by ff.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 9/16/07, by DC.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 9/16/07, by ff.
- Re: shoemaker, a real cruel stinker -- WRONG!!, 10/02/07, by Cory .
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 10/20/07, by sick and tired.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 10/21/07, by ff.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 10/21/07, by Audrey Schueck.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 10/21/07, by Audrey WS.
- Re: Dr. Shoemaker: One of a Kind, 10/21/07, by Erik Johnson.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 10/23/07, by ff.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker, Dr.Norton Fishman, A Better Choice, 11/04/07, by Rob.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker, Dr.Norton Fishman, A Better Choice, 11/06/07, by ff.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker, Dr.Norton Fishman, A Better Choice, 12/01/07, by Nikki.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker, Dr.Norton Fishman, A Better Choice, 12/01/07, by Nikki.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 12/23/07, by Tracy.
- Re: Shoemaker, better than CFS experts at Georgetown Uni, 12/27/07, by Melody.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 12/27/07, by melody.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 12/28/07, by ff.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 12/28/07, by ErikMoldWarrior.
- Re: Shoemaker, better than CFS experts at Georgetown Uni, 12/28/07, by ErikMoldWarrior.
- Re: Shoemaker/defending/clarity, 1/05/08, by Tracy.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 1/05/08, by ff.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 1/09/08, by Tracy.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 1/09/08, by ff.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 1/18/08, by Tracy.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 1/19/08, by ff.
- Re: To FF/ Dr. Shoemaker, 1/19/08, by Ticked off.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 1/19/08, by Ticked Off.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 1/19/08, by Ticked Off.
- Re: To FF/ Dr. Shoemaker, 1/20/08, by ff.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 1/20/08, by ff.
- Re: Defending Dr. Shoemaker, 1/20/08, by ff.
- Re: To FF/ Dr. Shoemaker, 1/20/08, by ErikMoldWarrior.
- Re: To FF/ Dr. Shoemaker, 1/22/08, by Tracy.
- Re: To FF/ Dr. Shoemaker, 1/22/08, by ff.
- Re: To FF/ Dr. Shoemaker, 1/22/08, by ff.
- Re: To FF/ Dr. Shoemaker, 1/27/08, by Tracy.
- Re: Shoemaker, better than CFS experts at Georgetown Uni, 2/22/08, by Deborah.
- Re: Shoemaker, better than CFS experts at Georgetown Uni, 2/22/08, by ff.
- Re: Shoemaker, better than CFS experts at Georgetown Uni, 3/03/08, by Deborah.
- Re: Shoemaker, better CFS doctor than Dr. James Baranuik GU, 3/08/08, by JL.
- Re: Shoemaker, better CFS doctor than Dr. James Baranuik GU, 4/06/08, by Me2, another lymie.
- Re: Shoemaker, better than CFS experts at Georgetown Uni, 4/06/08, by me2.
- Re: Dr. James Baraniuk, 5/03/08, by Another CFS/CBT victim.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 5/21/08, by Katie.
- Re: Dr. James Baraniuk, 5/21/08, by Katie.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 5/25/08, by Tracy.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 6/09/08, by Jill.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 6/09/08, by Jill.
- Re: June 23rd, 6/17/08, by Tracy.
- Re: June 23rd, 6/27/08, by mgfs.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 6/30/08, by Paul B. Ross.
- Re: June 23rd, 7/08/08, by Robert Christ.
- Re: June 23rd, 7/13/08, by S.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, 7/16/08, by Bruce.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, 7/21/08, by Seattle.
- Re: Shoemaker, better CFS doctor than Dr. James Baranuik GU, 7/21/08, by Seattle.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, 7/28/08, by Former Klimas Patient.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, 8/15/08, by Bad Experience.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, 8/15/08, by Bad Experience.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, 8/15/08, by BE.
- Re: June 23rd, 8/16/08, by Robert Christ.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 9/11/08, by Mary Ann.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with NO caveat, 9/11/08, by ErikMoldWarrior.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 9/14/08, by Joanie.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 9/14/08, by Joani.
- Re: Defending Shoemaker with caveat, 9/14/08, by ErikMoldWarrior.
- Re: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker, 9/21/08, by EnisP.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, A BAD EXPERIENCE , 10/11/08, by Surfer Chick.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, A BAD EXPERIENCE , 10/11/08, by Surfer Chick, Also........
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, A BAD EXPERIENCE , 10/12/08, by ErikMoldWarrior.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, A BAD EXPERIENCE , 10/19/08, by Maria.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, A BAD EXPERIENCE , 10/21/08, by Deborah.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, A BAD EXPERIENCE , 10/21/08, by ErikMoldWarrior.
- Re: Nancy Klimas, MD--MISDIAGNOSIS, 10/31/08, by Mass Lyme.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, 10/31/08, by Mass Lyme.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, A BAD EXPERIENCE , 10/31/08, by Mass Lyme.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas doesn't test for Lyme Disease, 10/31/08, by Mass Lyme.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, A BAD EXPERIENCE , 11/01/08, by ErikMoldWarrior.
- Re: Nancy Klimas, MD--MISDIAGNOSIS, 11/21/08, by Pat.
- Re: Dr. Nancy Klimas, A BAD EXPERIENCE , 11/21/08, by Pat.
- Re: Shoemaker, better CFS doctor than Dr. James Baranuik GU, 11/21/08, by Pat.
- Re: Shoemaker, better CFS doctor than Dr. James Baranuik GU, 11/26/08, by johncodie.
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